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AFFILIATIONS
[ARG] Call to Norway
- Thread starter Naio90
- Start date
- Jul 12, 2018
- 9,816
Foreign Minister Vinter was on the phone with the Foreign Minister of Sweden when he was informed by his secretary that Mister Andrada was calling. He concluded the call with his Swedish friend and then picked up the other line - a secure one - which had the Argentine diplomat on it.
"Minister Andrada, I'm sorry to keep you waiting - I just got off of a lengthy phone call with someone else. How can I help you?" he asked.
Naio90
"Minister Andrada, I'm sorry to keep you waiting - I just got off of a lengthy phone call with someone else. How can I help you?" he asked.
Naio90
- Jul 1, 2018
- 4,331
"Foreign Minister Vinter, thank you for taking my call and sorry to interrupt, but as you surely must have anticipated this is a call regarding an urgent matter. You, just as almost the rest of the world, must be aware of the ongoing conflict between Sweden and Argentina regarding antarctic affairs.
First of all, let me tell you that we do not have any intention on confronting with Norway, as it is a nation we respect due to its diplomatic and balanced approach. It is due to those traits that I insisted in calling you, despite some of my advisors being against it.
Sweden annexed, out of the blue a whole continent... a whole.. continent, never happened in human history. Ignoring in the process not only historical as well as social links of other nations with this area, that shaped the mind and customs of entire communities, but also the fragile status quo that was reigning antarctic relations before this, in our view, illegit claim. Surely as an antarctic nation yourself, with a claim on a portion of the continent Argentina would be willing to recognize, must understand this.
The unfortuned incident involving an unarmed argentine icebreaker and an swedish warship has convinced us that Sweden is decided to go to the las consequences in its attemp to keep what should not be subject to a sole nation.
With this said, we have received information of a fleet of norwegian military vessels currently operating in the Atlantic Ocean and heading south. We are worried that your nation may have intentions to take active part in this conflict. We sincerely do not wish to have a conflict with your nation, a conflict that could be very costly on both sides, but specially heavy in casualties for nations that have to operate far away from normal supply lines and against an opponent that is just behind the horizon and with total aerial supremacy.
You surely must have seen as well our public address to PM Lovden. We will restrict our combat operations to a localized area only and once we restore the status quo before the swedish proclamation, we will withdraw all military forces and be open to discuss with other nations how to avoid this from repeating.
I'm sure were your loyalties lie, and your Government is in no easy position, but we do not ask you to agree and side with our position, but merely to reconsider the fallout of escalating this conflict to the point of involving allied nations, first on one side and then on the other as a consequence."
Odinson
First of all, let me tell you that we do not have any intention on confronting with Norway, as it is a nation we respect due to its diplomatic and balanced approach. It is due to those traits that I insisted in calling you, despite some of my advisors being against it.
Sweden annexed, out of the blue a whole continent... a whole.. continent, never happened in human history. Ignoring in the process not only historical as well as social links of other nations with this area, that shaped the mind and customs of entire communities, but also the fragile status quo that was reigning antarctic relations before this, in our view, illegit claim. Surely as an antarctic nation yourself, with a claim on a portion of the continent Argentina would be willing to recognize, must understand this.
The unfortuned incident involving an unarmed argentine icebreaker and an swedish warship has convinced us that Sweden is decided to go to the las consequences in its attemp to keep what should not be subject to a sole nation.
With this said, we have received information of a fleet of norwegian military vessels currently operating in the Atlantic Ocean and heading south. We are worried that your nation may have intentions to take active part in this conflict. We sincerely do not wish to have a conflict with your nation, a conflict that could be very costly on both sides, but specially heavy in casualties for nations that have to operate far away from normal supply lines and against an opponent that is just behind the horizon and with total aerial supremacy.
You surely must have seen as well our public address to PM Lovden. We will restrict our combat operations to a localized area only and once we restore the status quo before the swedish proclamation, we will withdraw all military forces and be open to discuss with other nations how to avoid this from repeating.
I'm sure were your loyalties lie, and your Government is in no easy position, but we do not ask you to agree and side with our position, but merely to reconsider the fallout of escalating this conflict to the point of involving allied nations, first on one side and then on the other as a consequence."
Odinson
- Jul 12, 2018
- 9,816
"Minister Andrada," Vinter said after he reviewed the Argentine declaration among a few other documents. "I seriously question the motives of your government when you are willing to declare a state of war over what you just called an 'incident'. No shots have even been fired. I am also very concerned that not only did you fail to exhaust every diplomatic avenue available, but that as far as I'm aware your government has never even contacted Sweden's government to try to open any kind of dialogue. Minister Andrada, I hope that you can see why this appears to me to be a significant, unwarranted escalation on the side of Argentina?
"I cannot make any promises or guarantees as to what the response of Norway will be. I will have to discuss this with the Prime Minister, and the rest of the Council of State, as well as the Swedish government. I ask that you reconsider avoiding a direct diplomatic dialogue with Sweden - this is likely to be the easiest way to avoid tens-of-thousands of sailors, soldiers, and airmen from dying. As I said, I cannot make any policy statements on this situation until I have spoken with the rest of the government, so I will need to get back to you."
Naio90
"I cannot make any promises or guarantees as to what the response of Norway will be. I will have to discuss this with the Prime Minister, and the rest of the Council of State, as well as the Swedish government. I ask that you reconsider avoiding a direct diplomatic dialogue with Sweden - this is likely to be the easiest way to avoid tens-of-thousands of sailors, soldiers, and airmen from dying. As I said, I cannot make any policy statements on this situation until I have spoken with the rest of the government, so I will need to get back to you."
Naio90
- Jul 1, 2018
- 4,331
"Argentina does not recognize any swedish claim on antarctica, and the fact that Sweden attempted, by force, to detain an unarmed state operated argentine vessel by force, putting argentine lifes in danger, is in our view enough to be considered an direct aggresion. We saw what the "peaceful" swedish frigate, a warship, did to the last scientific ship down there. They seized it by force and detained a civilian crew and a group of scientists. We weren't going to allow that.
As you can see on the data we publicly provided, we contacted the swedish ship on numerous times, and all we got in response was the swedish ship carelessly blockaing ours.
Antarctica was a stable and peaceful continent until Sweden decided to claim it without any ground. We will fight until the swedish threat is removed from the area.
Your Government can contribute bringing peace back by convincing Stockholm to give up on this ridiculous claim."
Odinson
As you can see on the data we publicly provided, we contacted the swedish ship on numerous times, and all we got in response was the swedish ship carelessly blockaing ours.
Antarctica was a stable and peaceful continent until Sweden decided to claim it without any ground. We will fight until the swedish threat is removed from the area.
Your Government can contribute bringing peace back by convincing Stockholm to give up on this ridiculous claim."
Odinson
- Jul 12, 2018
- 9,816
The irony of the situation - that Argentina sunk a Swedish warship and then declared war on Sweden - was not lost on the Foreign Minister, but he assumed it wouldn't be any use to argue over the merits of the situation.
"Thank you for your call, Minister. I'll be sure to get back to you once I've consulted with the Council of State," he said. With that, he ended the phone call.
"Thank you for your call, Minister. I'll be sure to get back to you once I've consulted with the Council of State," he said. With that, he ended the phone call.
- Jul 12, 2018
- 9,816
"Good morning Minister Andrada. I am doing well... I am calling you in regard to the situation in Antarctica. I am going to be entirely honest with you, in that I have not been asked to call you back by the Prime Minister, but I am doing so on my own accord. The government is currently in lengthy talks with the Swedes and the Nordic Council, who have technically not yet chosen to activate our mutual defense treaties... yet. I considered what you told me earlier about the strategic disadvantage which Sweden, and by extension Norway, would face in a fully declared war between Scandinavia and Argentina if the war were to be fought off the Antarctic Coast.
"I recently left a Council of State meeting, where I was able to meet with the Minister of Defense, as well as several people in his Ministry. In my judgement, your initial estimation is largely correct... However, with that being said, I am highly confident that the Swedish military alone would be able to inflict significant damage on Argentine targets in South America either now, or a longer time from now without warning. Whether or not Norway became involved would not change the outcome, but would significantly increase the casualties and financial damage done to both sides. The inevitable conclusion of this war would be a very bitter stalemate, and perhaps occasionally brief continuations of hostilities. While this would be very pointless," he said, "we would largely be unable to stop it, because there would be a generational scar on the relationship between Argentina, and Northern Europe.
"The seemingly easiest solution to this problem would either be a full surrender or withdraw of either Sweden or your country. You believe you have a significant advantage, so I do not think you are even contemplating that at the moment. However, if Sweden were to capitulate, I can assure you from the experience that I have with their government that they are punitively-vindictive and will never forget this, and will do everything in their power for years to come to undermine the Argentinian state in every way they can, and perhaps even more covert and non-peaceful means of causing trouble. I'm not sure what your opinion on this is, but as a fellow diplomat, I imagine you'd like to avoid a permanent enemy.
"To avoid a rapid escalation in war with Sweden, and the likely inclusion of Norway, and to avoid a thousand needle pricks from the Swedes for years to come, I'd like the Norwegian government to host peace-talks between your government and Sweden. However, for this to be possible, we will all need to establish a cease fire as soon as possible because further escalations are very likely to be irreparable.
"I'm offering this to you as a humanitarian who wants to avoid further violence... Can your government agree to a cease fire, if Sweden does, and will you come to peace talks, if Sweden does as well?" he asked in conclusion.
Naio90
"I recently left a Council of State meeting, where I was able to meet with the Minister of Defense, as well as several people in his Ministry. In my judgement, your initial estimation is largely correct... However, with that being said, I am highly confident that the Swedish military alone would be able to inflict significant damage on Argentine targets in South America either now, or a longer time from now without warning. Whether or not Norway became involved would not change the outcome, but would significantly increase the casualties and financial damage done to both sides. The inevitable conclusion of this war would be a very bitter stalemate, and perhaps occasionally brief continuations of hostilities. While this would be very pointless," he said, "we would largely be unable to stop it, because there would be a generational scar on the relationship between Argentina, and Northern Europe.
"The seemingly easiest solution to this problem would either be a full surrender or withdraw of either Sweden or your country. You believe you have a significant advantage, so I do not think you are even contemplating that at the moment. However, if Sweden were to capitulate, I can assure you from the experience that I have with their government that they are punitively-vindictive and will never forget this, and will do everything in their power for years to come to undermine the Argentinian state in every way they can, and perhaps even more covert and non-peaceful means of causing trouble. I'm not sure what your opinion on this is, but as a fellow diplomat, I imagine you'd like to avoid a permanent enemy.
"To avoid a rapid escalation in war with Sweden, and the likely inclusion of Norway, and to avoid a thousand needle pricks from the Swedes for years to come, I'd like the Norwegian government to host peace-talks between your government and Sweden. However, for this to be possible, we will all need to establish a cease fire as soon as possible because further escalations are very likely to be irreparable.
"I'm offering this to you as a humanitarian who wants to avoid further violence... Can your government agree to a cease fire, if Sweden does, and will you come to peace talks, if Sweden does as well?" he asked in conclusion.
Naio90
- Jul 1, 2018
- 4,331
"Minister Vinter, we appreciate your nations efforts to mantain peace and preserve human lifes. It is what we would expect from the norwegian Government, as how it has historically acted.
However, we must make some remarks on what you just mentioned. First of all, Argentina has unilaterally declared an exclusion zone, limiting all combat activity to said sector, below the 60°S, exactly for the purpose of limiting damage and casualties. The idea is to not escalate the war and bring it to south american Argentina or Sweden. With this said, Argentina trusts its military capabilities to fend off any swedish attack (nor do we fear a vendetta from a corrupt and shady Government such as the Swedish, who constantly keeps taking advantages from other nations), having at the same time the capability to counter. But as we said, it is not our intention to fight beyond Antarctica.
Now to your proposal, it is hard for us to accept your nation as a host and middleman for talks between Argentina and Sweden, since as you just mentioned, Norway is clearly commited to Sweden including mutual defense pacts. In our opinion you would not be completely unbiased. Please do not take this as an offense, we are aware of your nations credentials on peace talks and diplomacy, but in the end in this case you have clear links to one of the belligerents.
Argentina will immedaitly sign a ceasefire the moment Sweden withdraws its warships from Antarctica and relinquishes its ridiculous claim, allowing for a return to the status quo prior to its unreasonable claim."
Odinson
However, we must make some remarks on what you just mentioned. First of all, Argentina has unilaterally declared an exclusion zone, limiting all combat activity to said sector, below the 60°S, exactly for the purpose of limiting damage and casualties. The idea is to not escalate the war and bring it to south american Argentina or Sweden. With this said, Argentina trusts its military capabilities to fend off any swedish attack (nor do we fear a vendetta from a corrupt and shady Government such as the Swedish, who constantly keeps taking advantages from other nations), having at the same time the capability to counter. But as we said, it is not our intention to fight beyond Antarctica.
Now to your proposal, it is hard for us to accept your nation as a host and middleman for talks between Argentina and Sweden, since as you just mentioned, Norway is clearly commited to Sweden including mutual defense pacts. In our opinion you would not be completely unbiased. Please do not take this as an offense, we are aware of your nations credentials on peace talks and diplomacy, but in the end in this case you have clear links to one of the belligerents.
Argentina will immedaitly sign a ceasefire the moment Sweden withdraws its warships from Antarctica and relinquishes its ridiculous claim, allowing for a return to the status quo prior to its unreasonable claim."
Odinson
- Jul 12, 2018
- 9,816
"Minister Andrada, while I believe that the 60°S exclusion zone is a noble attempt to keep this war in an uninhabitable area, I would like you to consider this purely from Sweden's perspective for a moment. Regardless of their actions, Argentina sunk a Swedish warship. Then, in response, Argentina declared war on Sweden. And now, efforts are being made by Argentina to launch further attacks on Swedish facilities. I can see few other scenarios where Sweden does not over-react - I can easily see the violation of this 60°S exclusion zone as a step that would be taken. I imagine that if this happened, Argentina would have no choice but to defend itself, and also bring the war beyond this exclusion area.
"As I said, the easiest solution to this would be a full Swedish withdraw. In that case, peace talks wouldn't really be needed beyond some kind of superficial peace treaty. However, that isn't the situation which we are in. In order to prevent further escalation, I know that we would need to enact a cease fire now, and begin peace talks - talks which I'm sure Argentina will overwhelming get what it wants, but without the needless deaths of thousands of servicemen. Further hostilities from your side, whether warranted or not, will only diminish the remaining chance of Sweden's willingness to consider this same offer.
"Would your government consider the Global Assembly as a mediator? I know the Secretary General, Clark Stone. I'm sure that he would be willing to host the peace talks at the GA headquarters in The Netherlands," he said.
Naio90
"As I said, the easiest solution to this would be a full Swedish withdraw. In that case, peace talks wouldn't really be needed beyond some kind of superficial peace treaty. However, that isn't the situation which we are in. In order to prevent further escalation, I know that we would need to enact a cease fire now, and begin peace talks - talks which I'm sure Argentina will overwhelming get what it wants, but without the needless deaths of thousands of servicemen. Further hostilities from your side, whether warranted or not, will only diminish the remaining chance of Sweden's willingness to consider this same offer.
"Would your government consider the Global Assembly as a mediator? I know the Secretary General, Clark Stone. I'm sure that he would be willing to host the peace talks at the GA headquarters in The Netherlands," he said.
Naio90
- Jul 1, 2018
- 4,331
"The unarmed argentine icebreaker followed a linear and predictible line of navigation at all times, if the swedish frigate decided to block the path by halting just in front of it, the blame is on the swedish ship. You surely know about customary navigational safety rules. You do not cross the line of navigation of a ship 20 times bigger and that clearly has far less maneuverability than those small agile swedish frigates.
We contacted Sweden directly, the same moment we asked them to remove their diplomatic personnel in Buenos Aires, and did not get any response. Why should we believe they are willing to discuss anything now? In their point of view any withdrawal is unreasonable.
We could accept a GA mediation, but first of all we would need a clear scenario from which start this negotiations.
Argentina has clear interests regarding the are on the Antarctic Peninsula, but we are aware said interest is shared with other countries. Everything was well and balanced, nobody spoke of it and live went on normal. But now, Swedens actions put all that balance in danger. Their last proposal at the GA, speaking of claims and ignoring Argentina alltogether while speaking of Chile, UK, NZ, Australia etc. puts in evidence that their only interest is to threaten Argentina's position."
Odinson
We contacted Sweden directly, the same moment we asked them to remove their diplomatic personnel in Buenos Aires, and did not get any response. Why should we believe they are willing to discuss anything now? In their point of view any withdrawal is unreasonable.
We could accept a GA mediation, but first of all we would need a clear scenario from which start this negotiations.
Argentina has clear interests regarding the are on the Antarctic Peninsula, but we are aware said interest is shared with other countries. Everything was well and balanced, nobody spoke of it and live went on normal. But now, Swedens actions put all that balance in danger. Their last proposal at the GA, speaking of claims and ignoring Argentina alltogether while speaking of Chile, UK, NZ, Australia etc. puts in evidence that their only interest is to threaten Argentina's position."
Odinson
- Jul 12, 2018
- 9,816
"Well," he said, "your country has declared war on Sweden, so I would imagine that Sweden's primary objective right now is to threaten Argentina's position in every geopolitical matter possible. However, a temporary cessation of hostilities with included peace talks would mean that formal, established peace could be made between our three countries. With this, exact terms could be laid out to demilitarize Antarctica - or limit military activity for supplies runs for civilians, such as researchers. Also, the question of territorial sovereignty would be entirely open to discussion and, possibly, a restoration of something more resembling the previous state of affairs in Antarctica. As Sweden's closest ally, Norway's government is in a position to get them to the negotiation table for the benefit of all three of us," he said.
Naio90
Naio90
- Jul 12, 2018
- 9,816
"Thank you for saying that, Minister Andrada. I will inform the government of this, and we will contact the Swedish. I must stress that further hostilities will be very likely to jeopardize any chances of peace... I'll be sure my office keeps yours informed on updates," he said. He then terminated the phone call and left to meet with the Prime Minister and Minister of Defense.
Naio90
Naio90
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