STATISTICS

Start Year: 1995
Current Year: 2005

Month: May

2 Weeks is 1 Month
Next Month: 10/11/2024

OUR STAFF

Administration Team

Administrators are in-charge of the forums overall, ensuring it remains updated, fresh and constantly growing.

Administrator: Jamie
Administrator: Hollie

Community Support

Moderators support the Administration Team, assisting with a variety of tasks whilst remaining a liason, a link between Roleplayers and the Staff Team.

Moderator: Connor
Moderator: Odinson
Moderator: ManBear


Have a Question?
Open a Support Ticket

AFFILIATIONS

RPG-D

[Ukraine] Phone Call to Belgium

GingeOrCringe

Junior
Apr 5, 2020
625
@Flying Damascas

Private/Encrypted

Ukraine's Minister of Finance Ihor Mityukov and Minister of Arts and Culture Ihor Kalynets would attempt to place a joint call to their counterparts in Belgium. They would explain to any operators that they had a plan to palliate Belgium's debt crisis.
 

Flying Damascas

Kingdom of Belgium
Dec 14, 2019
500
@GingeOrCringe

Private/Encrypted

The Belgian Minister of Finance, Willem Smets would answer his phone asap: "Hello, this is Minister of Finance, Smets of Belgium. How might I be of service?" He asked inquistively.
 

GingeOrCringe

Junior
Apr 5, 2020
625
@Flying Damascas

Private/Encrypted


“Ah, Minister Smets, this is Ukraine’s Minister of Finance Ihor Mityukov. My colleague Ihor Kalynets, Minister of Arts and Culture, is also here with me. We understand the Kingdom of Belgium is in a great deal of financial trouble at the moment. If you are willing, I think we might be able to provide a very modest source of monetary relief.”

“Or quite a bit of relief!” piped Kalynets.

Mityukov laughed joylessly before leaning away from the blocky office landline. “We talked about this…” He muttered through gritted teeth, "We have our own budget." Perhaps the Belgian Minister would have caught the scrap of his voice, perhaps not.

Regardless, Kalynets was carrying on as if he hadn’t heard anything. “When there is a recession, cultural institutions are often the first to lose funding. It’s unfortunate, but governments must prioritize spending in areas such as healthcare and social programs. Baby formula and cancer treatments must take precedent over old newspaper or baroque tea sets,” he tapped the table for emphasis. “We don’t know Belgium’s response plan to the economic crisis, but would we be wrong to assume that institutions such as the Royal Museum of Fine Arts will receive a decrease in fiscal allocations? In my own experience, this will result in difficult decisions for museum technicians regarding preservation and costs.

Belgium shouldn’t have to decide between sub-prime care for cultural artifacts or increasing it’s debt even further by maintaining a high cultural-spending budget. I would propose for Belgium’s national museums to consider deaccession. The Republic of Ukraine will be increasing its budget for the Ministry of Arts and Culture this fall, meaning we would have plenty of funding to care for new acquisitions—money to preserve them for future generations and space to ensure they are displayed for the education and enjoyment of the people.”

Mityukov would roll his eyes and summarize, “We are interested in purchasing artifacts you may not be able to properly care for in your current economic position. We will offer fair pricing. We can't spend more than a few million total, but every little bit helps, yes?"
 

Flying Damascas

Kingdom of Belgium
Dec 14, 2019
500
@GingeOrCringe

Private/Encrypted

"Greetings to you both from the Kingdom of Belgium, Ministers Mityukov and Kalynets. I must admit, that Belgium is currently on the brink of financial ruin due to poor planning and a bloated military budget. " he said with a subtle hint of personal disgust at the conduct of his country's government. "If this were to continue, I don't think I'd have to explain to you the damage inflicted upon the urban middle class. Thankfully, my government is not so easy come easy go when it comes to the preservation of the nation's rich heritage and cultural treasures. However these efforts at eliminating the national debt must focus on cutting military spending, any funds that may be allocated shall be invested in local infastructure, public education, and healthcare in order to offset the recession and implemented a lasting structural reform from which to lower the cost of living and ensure that wealth disparities don't come to bite us in the ass years from now. Even then, the designated allocation of funds for cultural facilities is likely to remain intact for the most, the heritage of the people is not for sale."
 

GingeOrCringe

Junior
Apr 5, 2020
625
@Flying Damascas


Private/encrypted

"We understand," said Minister of Finance Mityukov. "Thank you for-"

"One moment," Kalynets interjected again. "I would like to clarify a few points. I feel Minister Smets is misunderstanding what I am proposing because of your very inadequate paraphrasing."

"Please stop," mumbled the other man, pinching the bridge of his nose. This was going to turn into a national embarrassment...

"First, I am not proposing Belgium relinquish any of it's unique national treasures. I’m not sure how much you know about my country’s history, but believe me, if there is any country which understands the value of such things it is Ukraine. I would never insult the Kingdom of Belgium by suggesting you admonish something as culturally significant as a Van Eyck or Magritte.

That being said, deaccession is a standard practice for every museum, big or small. The exact percentage of collection on display varies from one institution to the next, but over all museums have more storage space than exhibit space. Sometimes curators determine that items simply aren’t displayed often enough and would rather they go to another museum which will have the item displayed for the public. I would respectfully note that Belgium has acquired several of the works in its own national collections by purchasing deaccessioned items from others.

I’m afraid many people outside the museum industry misconstrue the deaccession process as a fancy yard sale, but that is an incredibly inaccurate comparison. There are standard policies which insure ethical acquisition and, in Ukraine, we make sure to follow any legal mandates as well. For example, it is standard practice to sell artifacts to other museums and not to private collectors who might lock them away. On a similar note, most states legally require items looted or plundered by the Nazis to be returned to their original owners or their families. Any agreement the Republic of Ukraine comes to regarding historical and cultural artifacts will obey legal and ethical guidelines.

If, after understanding all of this, you still feel the need to decline or consult with others then that is perfectly acceptable.”
 

Flying Damascas

Kingdom of Belgium
Dec 14, 2019
500
@GingeOrCringe

Private/Encrypted

"I see. Well I guess with that in mind we have an understanding between our two countries. Furthermore I'm most pleased to hear of Ukraine's interest in Belgian historical artifacts and artistic masterpieces. Perhaps we could accomodate these interests by establishing a cultural exchange and quality exhibitions at various venues in Belgium and Ukraine respectively with a cordinated joint effort between both the government and private sectors. This should hopefully lead to an increase in tourust revenue over time."
 

GingeOrCringe

Junior
Apr 5, 2020
625
@Flying Damascas


Private/Encrypted

“Oh, yes, that would be fantastic! We would love for some of our artists to be displayed anywhere west of what was the Iron Curtain. Loans and traveling exhibits are akin to advertising, in a way, to come see what other treasures the lender has to offer. Currently, I believe your Royal Museum of Fine Arts only has one work by a slavic artist, and while your Art and History Museum in Brussels has a great number of pieces in its Eastern Christianity collection, most of them are Polish or Russian. We are very distinct from our sister nations and—Ouch.” Minister Smets would hear a small clatter as Mityukov’s pen bounced off Kalynets’ head and onto the office floor.

“That is a wonderful idea,” said Minister Mityukov. “One to be pursued after your peace talks in Moscow have successfully concluded. Unfortunately, sanctions resulting from the scrimmage with France otherwise still stand. My colleague and I required special permission to approach you today based on the premise that Belgium’s finances are in a state of grave emergency detrimental to it's people, but able to be quickly remedied based on our primary proposal. If Belgium is firm in declining our offer for immediate aid then I’m afraid this discussion must end."
 

Flying Damascas

Kingdom of Belgium
Dec 14, 2019
500
@GingeOrCringe

Private/Encrypted

"Agreed, many in Belgium could benefit from positive exposure to the culture and artwork of the Ukrainian people. I think its time the Royal Museum of Fine Arts received a new exhibitions designed to capture the essence of Ukraine's uniqueness among the Eastern Slavs open to the public.

Though my government has decided to cease hostilities and make peace with France, we are inclined to accept an American or Dutch cease fire over Russian intervention in the region. Nevertheless, we will kindly take up your offer for aid as we wander in the deserts of financial despair bounching from one crisis to the next...such crisises pose a considerable threat to the economy one that must be tackled without hesitation."
 

GingeOrCringe

Junior
Apr 5, 2020
625
@Flying Damascas

Private/Encrypted

“Excellent! We’ll fax you a list of the works we’re interested in and our price offers. I encourage you to discuss it with either the head-curators at your national museums or whomever Belgium has appointed as the equivalent of a cultural minister. This way you’ll be certain whether or not these are paintings you are willing to part with. It’s possible we have misjudged the value of these works, so we will consider counter offers. We would like to do business—cultural and non-cultural—with Belgium in the future, so it's extremely important to us that both parties feel they are receiving a fair deal.”

The Minister of Finance would add, “We’ll of course wire you the money as soon as pricing is agreed upon. However, we would request that any purchases be kept confidential until after Belgium has concluded their peace talks.”


Artist, Artwork, and location

Image (if available)

Value Assessment

Price Offer

Anonymous. Portrait of Saskia van Uylenburgh[?] in the style of Rembrandt Harmenszoon Van Rijin. 16th century. Canvas. 77cm. x 68.5 cm. Royal Museum of Fine Arts of Belgium, Brussels.


bol-1475zw-l.jpg



It is done in the style of Rembrandt of Rijin, but it may have been painted by his student, Govaert Flinck, or someone else entirely. There is a wide range of pricing for proven Rembrandt of Rijin works. Again, since the artist is unknown we will be veering away from what might be expected for a proven and verified Rembrandt of Rijin. That being said, it is an exceptional work regardless of who the artist was, and we would be incredibly happy to have it in our national collection.

$1,000,000 (One million USD)

Coecke van Aelst, Pieter. Saint Mary Magdalena.1532. Oil on oak panel. 86.5 cm. x 68 cm. Royal Museum of Fine Arts of Belgium, Brussels.


pays-bas-meridionaux-408dig-l.jpg



A beautiful example of the Northern Renaissance, it would compliment either the Khanenko Museum or Kharkiv Art Museum collection very nicely. The value of similar works by Pieter Coecke van Aelst have been estimated between 120,000 to 218,000 depending on the condition, size, and subject.

$200,000 (two hundred thousand USD)

Egmont, Justus van. The Reconciliation Between the Romans and the Sabians. 17th century. Oil on canvas. 38 cm. x 56.5 cm. Rubens House, Antwerp.


iu-4.jpeg



We believe this piece was purchased by the Rubens House Museum in Antwerp for ₤15,000 or about $18,878 (fifteen thousand GBP or eighteen-thousand-eight-hundred-seventy-eight USD). He is a lesser known artist, this accounts for the pricing. Still, we understand he was a student of Rubens and that this is why the work was purchased for the Rubens House.


$30,000 (twenty seven thousand USD)

Monticelli, Adolphe (attributed). Two Young Women and a Dog in a Park (Deux jeunes femmes et un chien dans un parc). 19th Century. Oil on canvas. 31 cm. x 26.5 cm. Royal Museum of Fine Arts of Belgium, Brussels.


monticelli-7471-l.jpg


Once again, this work is attributed but not proven to be by Monticelli. Value of similar but proven works has a wide range of $5,000 to $60,000 (five-thousand to sixty-thousand USD). There are other pieces we are more excited about, but the style is intreating nonetheless.

$10,000 (ten thousand USD)

Smits, Jakob. Father of the Convict (Le père du condamné). 1901. Oil on canvas. 100 cm. x 90 cm. Royal Museum of Fine Arts of Belgium, Brussels.


smits-3597dig-l.jpg



We’ve had difficulty finding information to better assess the value of this piece. One work by Smits (Symbol of Tenderness or Symbole de la tendresse ) has auctioned for around $24,000 (Twenty-four-thousand USD). It was about a third the size and done partially in water-color rather than oil.

$120,000 (one hundred twenty thousand USD)

Stallaert, Joseph. Death of Dido (La mort de Didon). 19th Century. Oil on canvas. 265 cm. x 412 cm. Royal Museum of Fine Arts of Belgium, Brussels.


260px-Joseph_Stallaert_-_La_mort_de_Didon.jpg


From the limited information we’ve been able to gather it seems Stallaert’s work sells in the $1,000 to $2,000 range but these were prices for much smaller works. What’s more, Death of Dido is a striking work with a pleasant, unifying color pallet.

$225,000 (two hundred twenty five thousand USD)

Stevens, Alfred. Salomé. 1888. Oil on canvas. 119 cm. x 98 cm. Royal Museum of Fine Arts of Belgium, Brussels.


stevens-3059dig-l.jpg



Once again we found this artist difficult to appraise. If you can give sources for a different value estimate we are willing to consider it.

$1,000,000 (one million USD)



Total offer:

$2,615,000 (two million six hundred fifteen thousand USD)

Additional flat-rate curatorial and processing fee to be paid upon final purchase:

$10,000 (ten thousand USD)

Grand total (does not include shipping and handling costs which will be paid for by the Republic of Ukraine):

$2,625,000 (two million six hundred twenty five thousand USD) plus shipping and handling costs.
 

Flying Damascas

Kingdom of Belgium
Dec 14, 2019
500
@GingeOrCringe

Private/Encrypted

"I'd like to thank you for having taken the time to fax a list of requested pieces and suggested price offers. However, at this point in time Belgium does not have an acting minister of culture nevertheless, I'm perfectly willing to consult the curators in question so as to arrive at an arrangement that is most advantageous for our two countries. " Smets said optimistically. "As things currently stand, my government is in The Hague doing just that as we speak."
 

GingeOrCringe

Junior
Apr 5, 2020
625
Private/Encrypted

The Ukrainians would sincerely thank Minister Smets for his time and wish Belgium the best of luck at the peace conference. If there were no more questions regarding the transaction they would end the call until the Financial Minister could assess their offer and get back to them.
 

Flying Damascas

Kingdom of Belgium
Dec 14, 2019
500
Private/Encrypted

"Ministers, I have asscessed your offer and am willing to ship the painting requested to the nearest port at the earliest possible convienence, I would like to humbly request that transaction be made not exceeding 15;0000 this should provide for the cost of upkeep as well as security. Its been a pleasure doing business with you, Gentlemen.

GingeOrCringe
 

GingeOrCringe

Junior
Apr 5, 2020
625
Private/Encrypted

"Oh, you're done reviewing it already? Excellent," Mityukov would speak quickly so that Kalynets couldn't ram any fiscally irresponsible suggestions into the conversation. "We'll fax you a sales agreement. As soon as you and a Belgian witness sign that, we'll wire you the money and arrange for the transportation."
Confidentiality Agreement and Transfer of Ownership of Cultural Items from the Kingdom of Belgium to the Republic of Ukraine

Article I: The Parties
1. Each party willfully agrees to comply to the terms of this contract.
2. Each signatory asserts that they have authority under the laws of their state to sign this document and agree to its terms, and that this document will be binding on all subsequent governments.

Article II: Sales Agreement
1. This contract documents the willful transfer of ownership of the following paintings from the Kingdom of Belgium to the Republic of Ukraine:
A. Anonymous. Portrait of Saskia van Uylenburgh[?] in the style of Rembrandt Harmenszoon Van Rijin. 16th century. Canvas. 77cm. x 68.5 cm. Royal Museum of Fine Arts of Belgium, Brussels.
B. Coecke van Aelst, Pieter. Saint Mary Magdalena.1532. Oil on oak panel. 86.5 cm. x 68 cm. Royal Museum of Fine Arts of Belgium, Brussels.
C. Egmont, Justus van. The Reconciliation Between the Romans and the Sabians. 17th century. Oil on canvas. 38 cm. x 56.5 cm. Rubens House, Antwerp.
D. Monticelli, Adolphe (attributed). Two Young Women and a Dog in a Park (Deux jeunes femmes et un chien dans un parc). 19th Century. Oil on canvas. 31 cm. x 26.5 cm. Royal Museum of Fine Arts of Belgium, Brussels.
E. Smits, Jakob. Father of the Convict (Le père du condamné). 1901. Oil on canvas. 100 cm. x 90 cm. Royal Museum of Fine Arts of Belgium, Brussels.
F. Stallaert, Joseph. Death of Dido (La mort de Didon). 19th Century. Oil on canvas. 265 cm. x 412 cm. Royal Museum of Fine Arts of Belgium, Brussels.
G. Stevens, Alfred. Salomé. 1888. Oil on canvas. 119 cm. x 98 cm. Royal Museum of Fine Arts of Belgium, Brussels.

2. The Republic of Ukraine shall transfer $1,500,000 USD to the Kingdome of Belgium in exchange for these items.
3. Once money for this purchase has been transferred to the government of the Kingdom of Belgium, the items shall be the property of the Republic of Ukraine. The Republic of Ukraine may then use, display, store, or restore these items however the Ukrainian Ministry of Arts and Culture deems suitable. However:
A. None of these items shall be resold to a private collector(s).
B. None of these items shall be willfully damaged or destroyed.
C. The government of the Kingdom of Belgium shall continue to properly store and care for these items until transportation authorized by the Republic of Ukraine is able to physically obtain them.

Article III: Confidentiality Agreement
1. The government of the Kingdom of Belgium shall not disclose that these items have been sold until after the successful conclusion of peace talks between the governments of Belgium and France.
2. The Government of the Kingdom of Belgium shall not disclose the date of sale until November 2000.
3. Violation of this nondisclosure agreement will result in a fine of $750,000 paid to the Republic of Ukraine.

Flying Damascas
 

GingeOrCringe

Junior
Apr 5, 2020
625
Private/Encrypted

After ensuring both parties had a copy of the agreement signed by both representatives of both countries, the Ukrainians would wrap up their call.

"These will be very well treasured in Ukraine, indeed, Minister Smets," Kalynets would say sincerely. "You should really come and visit once all that Franco-Belgian bullsh-"

"Thank you, good-bye," Mityukov would abruptly push the end-call button.

Flying Damascas
 

Forum statistics

Threads
22,192
Messages
108,723
Members
375
Latest member
drex
Top