United States | 2004 Presidential Debates

[Odinson]

First 2004 Presidential Debate
Foreign Policy & International Affairs

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On September 30, former Secretary of State Jackson Fitzgerald (Democrat), retired Marine Corps General Henry Sharp (Republican), and Vice President Benjamin V. Sinclair (Independent) gathered at the University of Miami in Coral Gables, Florida for the first of two presidential debates. This was the first time since 1992 that an independent was on the presidential debate stage. The first debate covered the topics of United States foreign policy and international affairs, while the second debate covered domestic affairs within the United States. Those invited to the debates were equal in number of Republicans, Democrats, and supporters of Vice President Sinclair, as well as a limited number of students from the University of Miami. The election between Fitzgerald, Sharp, and Sinclair had grown quiet complicated, and all of the candidates were taking different approaches. Fitzgerald was focused on positive advertising and avoided mentioning his opponents, while Sharp's campaign released increasingly negative adds targeting both Fitzgerald and Sinclair. Sinclair was out in the field more than the other two candidates and was trying to meet and speak with as many people as possible. He did not shy away from mentioning his opponents by name, but did so sparingly and instead focused on needed policy changes. A stereotype of modern American politics is that Republicans are sterner on foreign policy and are better at leading the nation in times of war or international troubles, while Democrats are more sympathetic to the working man, and independent candidates are either crazy or cannot win. These generalizations are not, of course, entirely accurate - especially for these three candidates.​

The debate started at time at 8:00PM EST. Jim Lehrer, the primetime anchor of PBS NewsHour, was the first thing that over 70-million Americans saw on their screens. He was the moderator that evening.


MODERATOR: Good evening from the University of Miami Convocation Center in Coral Gables, Florida. I’m Jim Lehrer of “The NewsHour” on PBS, and I welcome you to the first of the 2004 presidential debates between former Secretary of State Jackson Fitzgerald, the Democratic nominee, retired Marine Corps General Henry Sharp, the Republican nominee, and Vice President Benjamin Valentine Sinclair, who is an independent candidate. The debates are sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates and they will be conducted within formats and rules agreed to between the commission and the two campaigns. We’ll have the candidates at podiums. No answer to a question can exceed two minutes. Rebuttal is limited to one minute. But as moderator I have the option to follow up and to extend any particular give and take another three-and-a-half minutes. Even then, no single answer can exceed two minutes. The candidates under their rules may not question each other directly. There will be no opening statements, but each candidate may have up to two minutes for a closing statement. The questions and the subjects were chosen by me alone - tonight we will entirely focus on foreign policy and international affairs. I have told no one from the two campaigns, or the Commission, or anyone else involved what they are. There is a small audience in the hall tonight. They are not here to participate, only to listen. I have asked, and they have agreed, to remain silent for the next 90 minutes. Except for right now, when they will applaud as we welcome the three candidates, Secretary Fitzgerald, General Sharp, and Vice President Sinclair.

MODERATOR: And now the first question as determined by a flip of a coin, it goes to General Sharp. General, your campaign has run numerous advertisements criticizing the Gore Administration, and Secretary Fitzgerald, for how the United States has conducted foreign affairs since 1997. What is the underlying issue, and how is it connected to Secretary Fitzgerald?

SHARP: Jim, first let me thank the University of Miami for hosting us tonight and for you moderating the debate, I'm sure that you'll be fair. These debates are important because they can show the American People, live, in real time, who we are and how we can respond under pressure. Under the Gore Administration, which has had Secretary Fitzgerald as its chief diplomat, the United States has sat back repeatedly while things have gotten out of hand around the world. I am not calling for the United States to be some kind of global police with boots on the ground everywhere any time anything happens, but we need to get a grip and show these provocateurs around the world that we aren't going to stand for their nonsense. The Thai government, for example, has gone around the world terrorizing otherwise peaceful countries and harassing them with their military forces. They don't even try to hide that they're doing it, and now they've turned into a socialist state, which is the next step to authoritarianism. When a dog is barking at you, you can either run away and let it bite you on the behind, or you can kick it. If the Gore Administration had more grit, they would have solved this problem for the world years ago; instead the State Department, under Secretary Fitzgerald, placated states like Thailand and other provocateur nations, and things have only gotten worse.

MODERATOR: Secretary Fitzgerald, a one minute response.

FITZGERALD: Jim, I would also like to thank the University of Miami, the Commission on Presidential Debates, and yourself for moderating the debate tonight... There is a lot that General Sharp is leaving out about American foreign policy since 1997. First off, we united the world in the war against Turkey, a war where not a single American life was lost and we toppled a genocidal regime. Secondly, President Gore and I have worked closely with our allies and partners around the world to safeguard countries, especially smaller nations, from aggressive or irrational state-actors who were operating well outside of where they should be, and sticking their noses in the business of other nations. We dealt with them repeatedly in Europe, and it culminated in the United States deploying part of the Atlantic Fleet into the Mediterranean Sea to show our allies, the Free World, and everyone else that we are not going to tolerate petty bullying. The United States has the capacity to inflict lethal damage to any nation anywhere on the planet; however, just because we have that power does not mean that we should use it at the drop of a hat. Rarely do conversations accidentally cause wars, but accidents or misunderstandings during military deployments sure do.

MODERATOR: Secretary Fitzgerald, where do you see America's place in the world?

FITZGERALD: We won the Cold War and we're the only superpower left. Our responsibility is first and foremost to safeguard the American People, to keep our commitment to our allies, and to maintain the world order. If we can work with our partners around the world to prevent war and keep the peace between states, then we can help ensure a more prosperous future for mankind, and especially the United States. We need to branch out more, to more countries around the world. There is still progress to be made with countries such as Ethiopia, and other states that are often left on the back burner diplomatically. Every country has something to offer in making the world a better place, because if we show that we are willing to communicate and work with others, then they will want to work with the international community. We need to have a more global approach to politics and economics so that we can be closer with the rest of the world. We are doing well now, but we can always do better, and as president I will make that a reality for our country and the world.

MODERATOR: Mister Vice President, if you are elected, you will be the oldest president in American history the day that you are sworn in. Do you have the stamina to do this job for four, or possibly eight years? Why should the American People put their faith in you?

SINCLAIR: Thank you, Jim, for moderating tonight, and thank you to the University of Miami for hosting us. Florida is one of my favorite places in the world and I am honored to be on stage with these two gentlemen tonight. I feel relieved that the American People have three well-intentioned men of different backgrounds and a high caliber of character to choose from. I have been asked about my age several times. That is why my campaign is now releasing to the media, as we speak, a full medical evaluation that I have done. The evaluation included a physical test as well as extensive mental tests. The results were conclusive that I am in outstanding physical shape for my age, and that I have the mental cognition of a man in his late forties or early fifties. I am not surprised by these results, because I take my health seriously and because the Sinclair family has good genetics. Both of my parents are still alive and in their nineties, and all four of my grandparents lived to be older than 105. I have served my country in the military for thirteen years, and I served my country in the House of Representatives, the Senate, and now as Vice President. I am, without doubt, the most experienced man standing up here. I have an intimate knowledge of how our political system works, I have served in the military and I respect the men and women in it, and I am ready to lead the United States into an American Renaissance.​

Retired Marine Corps General
Henry Sharp
Republican​

MODERATOR: General Sharp, what would American foreign policy look like under a Sharp Administration?

SHARP: On day one as President, I would order the Pentagon to create a full review of TASA, our alliances with the United Kingdom and Sweden, as well as our relationships with other partners around the world, and whether or not these strategic partnerships benefit us. Other countries often take advantage of the good nature of the United States. This manifests in different ways, but one of the most common is that they will drain their military spending and rely on us for protection. We feel a sense of honor and duty to protect our friends, but we can only do so much to help them. At the end of the day, we can only help others who are willing to help themselves. I'm not interested, for example, in sending Americans to die in South Africa so that Sweden can hold onto a puppet state. It is important for us to have a network of allies around the world, but only if they actually bring something to the table other than existing and courting us diplomatically every two or three years. We have had to deploy assets to Europe repeatedly in the past seven years, and we almost always did it too late. While we had to sail thousands of men over an entire ocean, the British typically send little more than a symbolic force into the region when things start to heat up. As president I would make sure that our allies can take care of themselves and the spheres of the world that they exist in, because we have our own problems that we need to deal with.

MODERATOR: Thank you, General Sharp. Secretary Fitzgerald, do you think that our allies have taken advantage of us?

FITZGERALD: I do not. The British, in particular, have worked with us and fought alongside us repeatedly. You have to remember, we are a country of 292-million people, and the United Kingdom has less than sixty-million. While we cannot expect their fighting force to be as large as ours, they still have a formidible armed forces with a global reach. While we have had civil disagreements in the past, the British have always given us support when we asked for it and it was physically possible for them to do so. We have other close partners around the world, like Poland, who have put a great amount of trust into us, and worked alongside our military in especially tense times. Our allies are the bedrock of American foreign policy, without them we stand alone on our corner of the New World. What we need to do is to expand our global reach diplomatically. As president, I will work closely with the Global Assembly to reform it and make it so that it is a more effective organization to keep the global peace. The United States is a global leader, but if we can delegate some of those responsibilities to a global, democratic institution, then we can focus on other matters at home and our own national defense instead of having to poke our heads into ever incident. What my Republican opponent has failed to understand is that if we go around swinging our weight, it is only going to build up resentment from the rest of the world. The Cold War is over.

MODERATOR: General Sharp, a one-minute response.

SHARP: We must not take on a policy of appeasement like that. The United States Navy has, since World War Two, guaranteed that global waters are largely free of pirates and open for global trade. That has revolutionized the world. This globalist utopia that my opponent is trying to push can only be achieved with safe seas and a strong, international force that will keep the world in check. I'm not so cynical, as my opponent is, that I think of the past thirty years as the United States bullying the world. The American Navy is a global force for good - it has protected the weak and defenseless, ensured the freedom of navigation around the world, and it has ensured global peace and stability. We have the Navy, and our armed forces at large, to thank for the end of the Cold War.

MODERATOR: Vice President Sinclair, in relation to global cooperation, will your administration pursue a policy of autarky, ensuring complete independence, or are there specific areas where in our globalizing world the United States can pursue interdependence with its allies and partners.

SINCLAIR: I think that question has an economic implication, as well as a geopolitical implication. I will start with economic. What the United States has come to learn since the 1980s is that free trade agreements do not benefit the United States. We have an incredibly wealthy and prosperous country and people. Other countries around the world are eager to have access to our market, but at the same time they always try to negotiate free trade agreements that are, in reality, anything but free. The American market is repeatedly opened up to foreign imports while domestic products produced in the United States are outcompeted domestically and still have tariffs against them internationally. I am not an absolute protectionist, but I adamantly believe that we must do more to protect American manufacturing. Our economy is slowly shifting towards being a service economy, and we need to stop that dead in its tracks. Americans don't just need jobs, they need careers. I would work with the unions, the Department of Commerce, and the State Department to make the United States a manufacturing Mecca again. I am not against common-sense trade deals with our allies and closest partners, but they cannot be one-sided. Geopolitically, I strongly support our alliance with the United Kingdom and Sweden, and I know that there are numerous other partners around the world that we can work with such as Poland and Australia. One more thing I do want to mention, on top of that, is that as president I would pursue normalized relations with the Russian Federation, and I would work with them to establish a working relationship politically, and have the framework to work together militarily if we ever needed to again. The world would be a much safer and better place if the United States and Russia could put some trust into each other and work together to fix some global issues.

MODERATOR: Thank you, Mister Vice President. This next question is for all three of you. The United States has the most powerful military force in the world. What changes, if any, would you make to the armed forces? General Sharp, we will start with you, sir.

SHARP: That's a great question, and an important question, Jim. There are many changes and improvements that need to be made - I could talk about this for two hours - but I will try to sum up things here as best as I can. First off, the Marine Corps needs to reembrace its original purpose, amphibious invasions. The Corps needs more funding and assets to be able to conduct a proper, large-scale amphibious invasion. Congress has always pushed to maintain this ability, and under the Gore Administration we have been lacking. Next, I would restructure the Coast Guard. Currently, it plays a role in national security that has detracted from its original mission of saving lives out at sea. Those resources and money would be better spent in the Navy. Next, speaking of the Navy, my administration would have the goal of doubling the size of the Navy over the next eight years. We need to have a force that is so formattable that we could fight a war on the fronts, or three different wars at once, and remain in good standing. An advantage that the United States has is that we have two oceans between us, and the rest of the world. Our Navy, combined with the Marine Corps, is essential to our ability to be able to project power. I would also like to see an increase in the armored units that we have now in both the Marine Corps and the Army. While these units are rarely used, they become very important when a major ground war happens anywhere in the world. Finally, I want to add that the Vice President's assertion that we can develop a close working relationship with the Russians, and even a military one, is simply... foolish. We cannot trust the Russians and they cannot trust us. It has always been like that, and it always will be.

MODERATOR: Vice President Sinclair, would you like a minute to respond to that?

SINCLAIR: There is nothing foolish about building the foundations of a proper relationship with the Russians, if they are willing to meet us half way. Since the fall of communism, the Russians have not been antagonistic towards us. In fact, they fought on the same side as us in the war with Turkey, and they lost many soldiers in the ground war, which was costly for them, but a massive benefit to the allies. I am not saying that we should share our national secrets with them, but what we do need to do is foster an opportunity where both of our countries can work together. I would like to see us going from having a look-warm tolerance to each other's existence, to a respected partnership where we can call on each other for assistance when the time comes. If we could accomplish that, it would be one of the greatest diplomatic achievements since the end of the Cold War.

Former Secretary of State
Jackson Fitzgerald
Democrat​

MODERATOR: Secretary Fitzgerald, the same question to you now: the United States has the most powerful military force in the world. What changes, if any, would you make to the armed forces?

FITZGERALD: Our armed forces today are in better shape then they were eight years ago, but there are still improvements that must be made. The military needs more specialized units that are highly trained and capable of being deployed around the world on a short notice and cooperating with allies and other forces. Outside of Tier One special forces, the Marines have MARSOC and the Coast Guard has Port Security units. These units need more development and attention. While the use of our armed forces abroad for large-scale conflicts is a rare occurrence and something that we should only do as a last resort, the use of these smaller, more specialized forces would still allow us to project power and assist our allies while also saving money and not committing a massive force to conflicts or incidents that don't really require it. A prime example of this would be the long-standing crisis in New Caledonia. There are paths of development where our armed forces can cooperate with allied and partner states while also becoming more specialized in their fields.

MODERATOR: Mister Vice President, the same question to you now.

SINCLAIR: There are several changes that I would want to see. Firstly, the modern Marine Corps have had a doctrine of being a military force within themselves. What I mean is that the mission was for them to essentially have their own air force for close air support and air-to-ground strike missions and transport, their own ground force for amphibious invasions and direct-action with an enemy, and armored units so that they don't have to rely on the Army. We need to get the Marine Corps back in that position again. While I do not agree that we will see any massive amphibious invasions in the near-future, I nevertheless believe that the Marine Corps need to maintain that ability. The Navy has been hesitant about maintaining the battleships that President Gore brought back into service during the war in Turkey - I think that we should not only maintain those two, but consider bringing back two more. If we do ever have to conduct a large-scale amphibious invasion, modernized Iowa-class battleships will be valuable tools. The Air Force and the National Guard have been neglected for years. They need more equipment and funding so that they can better protect the United States itself. Finally, I support the expansion of the Coast Guard, and the agencies within it, so that they can better protect the United States and assist those in distress at sea. The largest commitments here are the revitalization of the Marine Corps and the Air Force, but the National Guard will also need some work. I know that we are going to have an entire other debate about domestic affairs, but this is not to say that we do not need to divert funding to the American People, because we do. The Federal Government needs to make a significant commitment to bringing back America's urban areas to their former glory, improving education in our country and raising standards, and bettering the life of the every day American.

MODERATOR: Thank you, Vice President Sinclair. That is your two minutes. General Sharp, President Gore is an avid environmentalist, however we have yet to see any global action to leave a better Earth for our grandchildren. What action can we expect from your administration?

SHARP: I wouldn't call myself an environmentalist, but I am a conservationist. I - like many Americans - have great memories of playing in the woods with my friends, swimming in lakes and rivers, fishing and hunting, and enjoying the great outdoors. There are natural places in America that need to be protected, like our national parks and national forests, so that future generations can enjoy them too. Regulations already exist to protect the air and the water from pollution, and I support many of those regulations. Jim, I think that recent generations have forgotten what it is to be outside. This is not only important for a military force, but it's important for a society too. I want to lead a national initiative to encourage young Americans to join organizations like the Boy Scouts and the Girl Scouts so that they can get in touch with the outdoors again gain some of those crucial skills that they have forgotten. There are many people in this country who probably wouldn't know how to start a fire or clean a rabbit if they had to. When people lose those kinds of skills, they become dependent instead of being independent. Our country would be a better place if more if the young people in America were hunting, camping in the woods, and fishing instead of playing video games and watching television all day. There is a lot more to being human than consuming media and buying Burger King. If we can encourage the newest generations, and the next generations, to live more in the outdoors and garner those skills, then they will live better lives.

MODERATOR: Secretary Fitzgerald, what say you?

FITZGERALD: I say that General Sharp just dodged that question because his campaign is funded by big oil and DuPont. We are not going to protect the environment by encouraging more Americans to go camping... The Gore Administration has maintained the crucial environmental regulations put into place under Nixon and has seen increased funding for Superfund sites around the country, but it has not been enough and it can do better. Global warming is an issue that we have to face, and the United States and other large, developed countries in Europe and Asia need to face. As president, I would lead an international effort to address some of the biggest environmental issues facing us, including global warming, acid rain, and the global destruction of forests that is occurring in developing countries around the world, such as the Congo in Africa and the Amazon in Brazil. These are problems that the United States cannot fix on its own; these are problems that the world is going to need to come together and agree to make certain changes. We share this planet together, so we are going to have to find solutions together. By the way, this is not unprecedented. The world has come together in the past for the greater good of the planet and mankind. The Montreal Protocol in 1987, for example, phased out the production and consumption of ozone-depleting-substances. These chemicals were being used in in refrigerators and air conditioning units around the world, but the world came together to take a reasonable approach to almost entirely eliminating their production and use, and since then the hole in the ozone layer over Antarctica has shrunk significantly. The world can solve problems together, and it will be able to do so even easier once we have necessary reforms made in the Global Assembly.

MODERATOR: General Sharp, would you like a one-minute response?

SHARP: I am not ashamed that some people in the oil industry have contributed to my campaign. The oil industry employs hundreds of thousands of people in the United States, in states like Texas, Louisiana, Florida, and Alaska. What America needs right now is less regulation on these industries that employ so many people. Don't get me wrong, we will continue to keep our waters and air clean, but the last time an oil refinery was built in the United States was 1998 in Atmore, Alabama. It is so difficult to build a refinery in this country, and there is so much red tape, that it is usually cost prohibitive all together. We are now importing gasoline from other countries, while we have the capacity to produce it here, because some politicians just can't stand the idea of having Americans making our own fuel and guaranteeing our energy independence.​

Vice President of The United States
Benjamin Valentine Sinclair
Independent

MODERATOR: Vice President Sinclair, I will repeat the question for you: President Gore is an avid environmentalist, however we have yet to see any global action to leave a better Earth for our grandchildren. What action can we expect from your administration?

SINCLAIR: The environmental issues in our county, and the world, are often oversimplified. Some people, nowadays, only want to focus on global warming or one singular issue when there is, in reality, several high-priority issues that are facing our country. Energy independence is a national security issue for the United States. Instead of drilling into the ground every one hundred feet in Alaska and Texas, there are better, more innovative solutions that we can focus on. As president, I would assemble the best mechanical, electrical, and chemical engineers that we have in our country to design private and public transportation that does not rely on fossil fuels, but instead focuses on vehicles powered by electric batteries or hydrogen fuel cells. These vehicles would be clean on our streets and reduce smog and air pollution and, at the same time, they would be safer on the road. I would also encourage the construction of power stations that produced electricity by means other than coal including: natural gas, which burns much cleaner than coal, wind, solar, and nuclear. A combination of these forms of energy, in the right places and under the right circumstances, will put the United States on track to being a cleaner and more environmentally friendly nation. I would also make sure that these vehicles are manufactured in America to bring more high-paying jobs, and we could export them all over the country and all over the world. If we could remove fossil fuels from transportation, it would be the single-greatest step we can take to reducing the production of greenhouse gases, acid rain, and smog that chokes our children while they are walking to school. That would be an incredible first step which could reasonably be done, it will just take the right leadership to do it.

MODERATOR: Gentlemen, thank you for participating tonight. I will give each of you one minute to make a closing remark. General Sharp?

SHARP: America's strength comes from the American People. If we can give them more freedom and less taxes, they will be poised to be greater entrepreneurs and improve the economy. As president, I would cut spending and government bloat, and the government would take less in taxes from the everyday working man. If the government would just give the American People some breathing room, we could get our country back on track. If you want more jobs in our country, if you want the world to respect us, and if you want a powerful American military that will safeguard you and your family, I ask that you consider voting for me in November. Thank you Jim for moderating, and thank you to the fine people here at the University of Miami for hosting us.

MODERATOR: Secretary Fitzgerald.

FITZGERALD: Thanks Jim, and thank you to the University of Florida for hosting us tonight. Internationally I want to see an America that works with the rest of the world so that we can all work together to move mankind forward. Our country has been a global leader since the 1920s, and we will continue to be under my administration. If we can focus on bettering relations with other countries around the world, it will pay dividends. We will reap advantages in trade, domestic production of goods, jobs, and we will be less likely to have to spend time in war or conflicts where Americans have to go and die. We, as a country, have come so far and now all we have to do is take the next great leap forward to achieve further greatness. I'm ready to take that leap, and I invite you to join me.

MODERATOR: Mister Vice President, your final thoughts sir?

SINCLAIR: What America needs is a president who is going to roll up his sleeves and go around this country to fix the problems that we are facing. I have seen the closed factories in Maine and New England, I have seen the ghost towns in the Midwest, I have seen the crumbling bridges in Louisiana and the slums in New York and Los Angeles! Our country does not have to tolerate poverty in the deep south and Appalachia, our country does not have to tolerate public schools with thirty-year-old textbooks and underpaid teachers! What our country needs is a president who will lead us the next four years into this twenty-first century, which we are going to make into another American century! Elect me as your president, and I swear on my honor to lead our republic to the stars. God bless you, and God bless the United States of America.

MODERATOR: We will continue this dialogue next week on October 13th at Arizona State University in Tempe, Arizona. The format then will be more informal, more conversational with the three candidates seated at a table with me. Thank you, Secretary Fitzgerald, General Sharp, and Vice President Sinclair. See you next week. For now from Florida, I’m Jim Lehrer. Thank you, and good night.​

 

[Odinson]

Second 2004 Presidential Debate
Domestic Affairs

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On October 13th, Secretary of State Jackson Fitzgerald (Democrat), retired Marine Corps General Henry Sharp (Republican), and Vice President Benjamin V. Sinclair (Independent) gathered at Arizona State University in Tempe, Arizona for the second of two presidential debates. This second debate covered domestic policy of the United States. Those invited to the debates were equal in number of Republicans, Democrats, and supporters of Vice President Sinclair, as well as a limited number of students from Arizona State University. The race for the presidency had so far involved an above average amount of negative campaigning from the Sharp campaign and an increasing amount from the Fitzgerald campaign. They targeted each other, as well as the Sinclair campaign occasionally as well. Sinclair's campaign remained largely stoic in the face of these advertisements and instead focused on the Vice President who was travelling the country and meeting with as many Americans as possible. Fitzgerald and Sharp took a more modernist approach and largely visited battleground states such as Florida and Ohio.

The debate started on time at 6:00PM Mountain Time. Jim Lehrer, the primetime anchor of PBS NewsHour, was the first thing that over 85-million Americans saw on their screens. He was once again the moderator for the second debate.


MODERATOR: Good evening, from Arizona State University in Tempe, Arizona. I’m Jim Lehrer of the News Hour on PBS. I want to welcome you to the second and last of the 2004 debates between former Secretary of State Jackson Fitzgerald, retired Marine Corps General Henry Sharp, and Vice President Benjamin Sinclair. As I mentioned in the previous debate, these debates are sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates. Tonight the topic will be domestic affairs. The format and the rules are those negotiated by representatives of the two campaigns. The subjects and the questions tonight were decided by me, and me alone. The format tonight is that of a conversation. The only prevailing rule is that no single response can ever, ever exceed two minutes. The prevailing rule for the audience here in the hall is as always, absolute quiet, please. Good evening, Secretary Fitzgerald, General Sharp, and Vice President Sinclair. The end of our 90 minutes at the last debate in Florida, the total time each of you took was virtually the same. Let’s see if we can do the same tonight, or come close.

MODERATOR: Vice President Sinclair, the first question goes to you. As an independent candidate for president, you do not have the support of either major party, nor any minor party in the United States. Being President of the United States is, of course, much different than Vice President. Instead of spending time in the Senate where you are expecting to be largely impartial, you will be in the white house as president, commander-in-chief, and leader of the Free World. In that role you will be required to work with, and negotiate with, Republicans and Democrats. Why should the American People vote for you if you do not belong to either major party and you may have a more difficult time navigating the American political landscape?

SINCLAIR: Jim, thank you for moderating once again, and thank you to Arizona State University for hosting us tonight. You have just asked an important question that many other Americans have asked themselves, and have asked me directly. Here is my answer: as an independent congressman and an independent member of the Senate, I regularly co-signed and supported bipartisan acts of congress that were successful. I have worked closely with Republicans and Democrats, and with every president since John F. Kennedy. During my tenure as Vice President, more bipartisan bills and acts have passed the United States Senate than any other time since World War Two - working together, as Americans, has been a primary objective of mine as President of The Senate, and my staff and I have succeeded. I have an intimate knowledge of how Washington works and I will do everything in my power to bend it to the will of the American People if I am elected president. I am also a veteran and I have immense respect for our armed forces, and for every soldier, sailor, marine, airman, and coast guardsman who are making immense sacrifices to keep our country safe. Jim, I think that being an independent is actually a huge advantage to me. I do not have the choke-collar that is party politics. Instead, I am free to work with both sides to find solutions that the American People want.

MODERATOR: Secretary Fitzgerald, the next question is for you. Your time as Secretary of State and in the State Department's Foreign Service reflects the strength you have in navigating international politics. However, you have never been elected to public office. Do you have the skills necessary to serve as President of the United States and handle domestic affairs at home, as well as military affairs?

FITZGERALD: Jim, thanks to the University of Arizona, and also to you for moderating again tonight, great question. Before I was nominated to be Secretary of State by President Clinton, I served in the State Department's Foreign Service for decades. I have been to every continent in the world and I have visited all of our major allies and adversaries multiple times. I have met with excellent statesmen and elected representatives, I have met with kings and princes, and I have met with dictators and despots. Something that everyone has to understand is that the world is not a safe place. We are exceptionally fortunate to have the country that we do, because most of the rest of the world is dangerous, or outright inhospitable. I know how to work with other world leaders and I understand the dynamics of international politics. More than that, I am also a father of five and a proud American. During my time as Secretary of State, I worked closely with President Gore, the military, and the CIA on countless occasions to bring back wins for the American People. Domestically, I am ready to take on the challenges that our country faces. In many parts of the country, the American People have been neglected for decades; as president I will raise taxes on the top income earners in our country and use that money to help the poorest Americans, as well as relieve some stressful burdens on the average American. Too many people in this country are living paycheck to paycheck, and we have the tools to address that.

MODERATOR: Thank you, Secretary Fitzgerald. General Sharp, you served in the Marine Corps for most of your life. Now, you are running for president. While you obviously have an ample amount of military experience, why should the American People be convinced that you have the experience to work with other leaders around the world, or handle domestic affairs and politics at home, as you have also never been elected to public office?

SHARP: Good question, Jim. Thanks for being here again tonight, and thanks to the university for hosting us. My answer to that is simple: we have had too many career politicians and bureaucrats in Washington who have gummed up the government with more and more red tape. My opponent, Vice President Sinclair, has never held a real job in his life and comes from a wealthy family. My other opponent, Secretary Fitzgerald, know more about the rest of the world than he does the United States. Those two gentlemen are disconnected from America, and the American People. I have travelled around the country and heard pleas for someone who can relate with the average American to serve in office and get things done - I am capable of doing that. Have I spent most of my career in the Marines? Yes. Has it made me one tough son of a gun? You can bet every dollar in your pocket on that, and I will wrangle congress into passing legislation that will help the everyday American, and the working man. I will loosen the strangle-hold that regulations have on the American economy and I will lower taxes so that the average American gets to keep more money in his pocket. Jim, this country doesn't need a career politician or bureaucrat - both, by the why, are millionaires - to try to relate to the American People. I'm not doing this because I want it - I'd love to be on a beach sipping rum from a coconut. I'm doing this because our country is on the wrong track and we need to get back to worrying about Americans instead of the rest of the world.

MODERATOR: Vice President Sinclair, you were mentioned in General Sharp's response. Do you wish to give a response?

SINCLAIR: Jim, I served in Korea, I was shot eight times on five different occasions, I was shot out of the sky, I was nearly blown up twice, and I led men in the sky and on the ground. Afterwards I was an instructor at the United States Air Force Academy and I was later elected to congress. As Vice President, I led soldiers on the ground in Washington myself to the Capitol Building to prevent it from being overrun. My family has money, that is true, but I have faced many great struggles in my life. I have been to war, I was struck by lightning and lived, my wife was murdered, and my brother died in my arms... I have faced adversity and questioned why God put me on this Earth many times. The only conclusion I have been able to come to is that he wants me to give everything I can to help those around me until it is my time go - and I still have plenty left to give. America does not need a kick in the behind, America needs a leader that will restore her greatness, and I will be that leader if you elect me.

MODERATOR: Secretary Fitzgerald, your response to General Sharp's remarks?

FITZGERALD: The State Department isn't a random government agency full of unproductive bureaucrats. It is full of everyday Americans who have dedicated their lives to protecting America by securing her interests overseas through diplomatic means. I would never demean General Sharp's service in the military, or the Marine Corps in general, because their mission of protecting America with force is just as important as the State Department's job of protecting America with diplomacy. The ultimate goal of the State Department is to protect American interests and to prevent war, and we have been successful at both of those things. I am not hear to get in a shouting match with one of my opponents, I am here to talk about what we can do to help the American People back at home, so let's get back to talking about that.

MODERATOR: This next question is for all three of you, starting with Vice President Sinclair. The average life expectancy in the United States has continued to go up, but the rate at which it is increasing is lagging behind many countries in Europe; experts say that this may be tied to the growing rate of obesity in America. As president, what would your administration do to address a possible looming health crisis?

SINCLAIR: The problem is, for the most part, not how much Americans are eating, but what we are eating. Even simple food products like bread have preservatives and additives in them that are banned in other countries. The flour that we have in America also has an unusually high amount of gluten in it compared to other countries as well. Chips and other junk food, while not great for a healthy life style, are made much worse by certain food dyes and additives that cause cancer or other health problems. On top of that, we have begun a large shift away from whole foods and meats to processed foods - a better term for those, in my opinion, are 'Food Like Products.' They look like something you can eat, due to artificial coloring, they taste like something you can eat, thanks to additives and large quantities of sugar, but many of these products are an unholy amalgamation of things that once were food, were processed in a factory, and are calorie-dense. As president I would have the FDA begin to regulate the production of processed foods to ensure that they are safe, edible, and that the chemicals put into them are either safe or are left out to ensure a pure, edible product. The rest of the developed world is already doing this, and I am confident that we can do it even better. As part of my education reforms, I also want to see high standards for physical fitness brought to public schools around the country. President Kennedy started an incredible initiative at La Sierra high school in the 1960s to bring peak physical fitness for our youngest generations, and as President I will again too.

MODERATOR: Your answer, Secretary Fitzgerald?

FITZGERALD: Jim, Americans today can buy a seventy-two ounce soda from a fast-food chain. Seventy-two ounces, that is over half a liter. The number of fast-food restaurants have tripled around the country. What we need is government regulations on how much of these foods can be sold, what can be in them, and how many calories can be in these products. The more things change, the more they stay the same - while our country has evolved over the past fifty years, we are still the same people. What has changed is our diet and some of our habits. Government regulation in this area is key and will result in a healthier America that still has the freedom of choice, but has the freedom to choose from more than one option. I am happy to hear that Vice President Sinclair agrees with my campaign's policy on this position, because it is critical that we make sure the next generation of Americans are healthy and read to take hold of the torch of leadership in politics, the work force, and having families. Strong individual Americans will mean a strong country, and a strong county means a great future for our children and our children's children.[/SIZE]

MODERATOR: Mister Vice President, Secretary Fitzgerald mentioned you, do you wish to respond?

SINCLAIR: I am just happy to see that Secretary Fitzgerald and his campaign agree with my policy on this topic.

MODERATOR: General Sharp, the question goes to you now, I'll repeat it: The average life expectancy in the United States has continued to go up, but the rate at which it is increasing is lagging behind many countries in Europe; experts say that this may be tied to the growing rate of obesity in America. As president, what would your administration do to address a possible looming health crisis?

SHARP: Everyone at home just heard my opponents talk about regulation, regulation, regulation. The increasing number of obese Americans doesn't have to do with the food as much as it has to do with exercise. Kids use to play outside and out in the town, now it seems like they're afraid to leave the home, or they're obsessed with video games. What we need is a stronger physical education in all public elementary schools, middle schools, and high schools throughout the nation that must be passed in order to receive a high school diploma. Physical fitness is not a luxury, it's a requirement to be a good American. Anyone can go and watch videos of young Americans lining up in Brooklyn during World War Two for the draft by the thousands, and they all looked the same: either in good shape or a bit on the thin side. Instead, today, we have fat kids who do nothing but roll around at home. I have sympathy for these kids, because if they stay that way they'll never have the confidence it takes to get a good job, get married, or feel the pure joy that it is to be at peak physical performance. Most Americans, after they turn the age thirty, never sprint again for the rest of their lives. That is a sad, and pathetic fact that needs to be addressed. As president, I would offer a tax deduction to any American adult who can meet certain physical fitness goals. We will get our country back in shape.

MODERATOR: Thank you, General Sharp. This is again a question for all three of you, staring with Vice President Sinclair: Illegal immigration across the southern border has reached record numbers. What will you do, as president, to address these issues?

SINCLAIR: My sympathy is for the American People and the difficulties that they face. There are American men and women working in factories, restaurants, fire stations, mechanic shops, power stations, and shipyards around the country. Those people work hard, and the jobs that they do are not easy, and they are often dangerous. I also sympathize with the plights of people from other countries around the world, including Mexico and Latin America, but I am running for President of the United States. What I have heard from other politicians is either hatred toward another people, or an equally sinister and evil narrative that we need to import what is essentially slave labor into the United States to do low-paying jobs, because no American will do it. I have been told that an American will not be a fisherman, or a garbage man, or that Americans will not harvest crops or clean hotels rooms... My fellow citizens, it is immoral for us to import labor from around the world to do these jobs, and it is even more immoral to technically allow illegal immigrants across the border to do these jobs, while maintaining their status as illegal so that we can deport them later. As president, I will ensure that we have a well-defended border, but moreover, I will not put penalties on the people, but I will put penalties on businesses that employ illegals. There will be hefty and significant fines for these corporations that look to take advantage of the third world and refuse to employ American citizens. Americans can do these jobs, and they should be paid justly to do them.

MODERATOR: Secretary Fitzgerald, what is your answer?

FITZGERALD: My answer is that we need to have compassion for the less fortunate, and that we need to look at reality. We do need to have a secure border, but we also need to realize that there are certain kinds of labor in our country that would be impractical to pay at standard wages. If immigrants want to come to our country, and if they want to work hard and support their families, then I see no reason why they should not be allowed to stay. For generations upon generations, the United States has held the policy that we are a nation of immigrants, that we accept the poor, the hungry, and the weak who have no hope, but who want to forge their own destiny and aspire to greatness. My parents were immigrants to the United States from Ireland. I love my cultural heritage, but I am an American - I love America and what we stand for, and immigrants to the United States throughout history have embraced the same. We need a policy, in regard to immigration, that realizes that there are certain economic situations that require foreign immigrants, while we also realize that they are people who deserve human rights and equal treatment under the law. As Americans, we should realize that we are only as great as the most defenseless parts of our society. We need to lift the poor and the weak out of poverty, and we need to focus on improving our economy.[/SIZE]

MODERATOR: General Sharp, the question goes to you now.

SHARP: As president, I would immediately deploy armed forces to the border with Mexico to secure it, and following that I would push congress to support a dramatically increased budget for the United States Border Patrol. Following that, I would implement regulations, and push for laws from congress, that would make it a criminal offense to cross the border illegally. We can call what is happening right now, in no uncertain terms, an invasion from other countries. The constitution says that it is the duty of the Federal Government to protect the states from foreign invasion, and that the states also have the right to defend themselves when the Federal Government cannot do so. Moreover, as president, I would implement a program to deport any person in the United States who is not hear on a legitimate VISA which has not expired. This is the greatest country in the world, and we should not just allow anyone to stay. If we continue this relaxed policy that is currently in place, there will come the day where terrorists are able to easily cross the border and remain here for some time until they are told to carry out an unthinkable mission. As president, my goal would be to prevent that and to protect the American people economically and politically.

MODERATOR: This final question goes to each of you: while the average American is making more than he has ever before, poll show that most American families do not consider themselves to be in a 'comfortable' standard of living. What would you do to fix this? Vice President Sinclair, you are first.

SINCLAIR: I support President Gore, who has guided the American People through some incredibly difficult times for our country. However, the American People are struggling and it is obvious that they need more paths to prosperity. The United States is the wealthiest country in the world, and we are capable of providing a middle class lifestyle for virtually everyone in this nation, if they want to strive for it. As president I would put restrictions on illegal immigration, I would support organized labor, and I would support tariffs on the import of certain goods from overseas to ensure that certain products are produced by Americans and for Americans. If Americans are the producer and the consumer, then we are winning. I would, in general, do my best to ensure that products consumed at home are produced at home and that the rest of the world is not taking advantage of us. But, equally importantly, I want to reinvigorate the centers of our cities and restore greatness to our nation. The American People need schools that are deserving of the country that they are in, the American People need jobs that they can call careers, the American People need to be able to support themselves and their families and more to spare - if I am elected President, the American People will see prosperity, so help me God!

MODERATOR: Secretary Fitzgerald, the question is to you now.

FITZGERALD: The size of the middle class has shrunk. No one can disagree with that, though the reasons are what we discuss. Regardless, it is pretty easy to see that the average American has more trouble affording the ability to support his or her family. What I would like to do as president is ensure that everyone has a chance to live the American Dream and raise a family in at least middle-class conditions if they are willing to work for it. Every citizen should be able to afford a home, every citizen should be able to afford healthcare, every citizen should be able to go to college, every citizen should be able to live up to what is the American standard! As president I would increase taxes on the wealthiest among us, and I would use that money to support college education for the masses, I would use e that money to support the middle and lower classes, I would use that money to support public services. What we need right now, more than ever, is a bolstering of the middle-class that will restore America to her greatness that she saw decades ago. The United States is the envy of the world, and as president I will keep it that way.[/SIZE]

MODERATOR:General Sharp, your answer?

SHARP: I think the answer to this question is pretty straightforward. Big business wants the cheapest labor possible, and they will use illegal immigrants to get that labor, which should belong to the average American at a fair market value. Instead of mandating that wages are set at a certain price, I believe that the market can decide it as long as we don't flood the market with thousands of illegal immigrants who will work for dirt. I have sympathy for these people, they just want a better lives for themselves and their families - but the United States already accepts a million legal immigrants per year. America holds up to her history, and more, by accepting people from all over the world into our nation. We do not, and should not, accept millions more who just so happen to physically cross a border. Moreover, I want to lower taxes on the average American so that he can afford to spend more on what he pleases, instead of giving it to the government to squander. Every time we raise taxes, what we see is an increase in the size of government instead of an increase in the services that we are promised. I am not going to fall for that classic mistake as president, I want to make sure that Americans have more money in their pockets.

MODERATOR: Gentlemen, your closing comments, starting with the Vice President.

SINCLAIR: What I want is to see a country where the average American is three or four generations ahead of the average man on Earth, if not more. I want a massive middle class that dominates our population, where any man and woman can have a prosperous family and a home that hey can call their own. I want to ensure that we have a safe country where children can play outside, where adults can enjoy themselves, and where the next generation can pursue their passions. My fellow citizens, if you elect me as your president, I swear to dedicate these next four years to your prosperity and your security. The United States is the envy of the world, and will continue to be so for generations to come. I want to improve on what we already have, and I want to bring a new American Renaissance for everyone to prosper.

MODERATOR: Secretary Fitzgerald?

FITZGERALD: My fellow Americans, what I want to tell you is that we already have a great country. I'm confident that any of the three of us could probably lead us to a bright future, but I urge you to vote for me as president because I will stand up for the average citizen, for the American who is struggling paycheck to paycheck. Virtually everyone has struggled at some point in their lives, be it financially or personally, but what matters is that we overcome those struggles. As president, I want to give an extra helping hand to those folks at home, I want to give a boost to the average man who is just trying to get by. If you elect me as president, we will see a new age of prosperity for the average American, and we will continue to be renowned around the world.

MODERATOR: General Sharp, your closing statement?

SHARP: Ladies and gentlemen, your choice is simple. If you want the status quo, if you want nothing to change, vote for one of my opponents. If you want real change, then vote for me. I will reinvigorate our military, I will make sure that the rest of the world respects the United States of America, I will bring down the hammer on illegal immigration, and I will make sure that there are more for Americans, managed by Americans, who produce products for Americans and the world over. Our armed forces will be capable of facing anyone around the world, or the rest of the world combined. If I am elected president, it will be my mission to fight for you on the battlefield of politics, and I will win. Thank you.

MODERATOR: That concludes the 2004 presidential debates. Now, it is time for the American people to decide who will be the President of the United States for the next four years. I am Jim Lehrer from PBS, good night. ​