Violation of Protection

[Centurius]

Hello,

I would like to report the following post, in it HeadlessSeeker is actively deploying intelligence gathering assets inside my airspace

https://modernnations.com/threads/operation-环龙-huán-lóng.1358/#post-8871

The specific parts I am reporting are:

The 965th Intelligence Squadron at Cat Bi International Airport would now secretly be taking part in this operation. With help from the 32A Combat Engineer Battalion which was currently located at Cat Bi International Airport, they would move aircraft into position. 2 Lockheed M-21 would be lined up in parking with 20 feet between them as the Combat Engineers would fuel them to max capacity. Checking seals as they did so, and double checked their work. Then as safety checks were being performed 2 Lockheed D-21 would be wheeled out from their hangars. Each would be carefully mounted onto their mounting locations on the M-21 carrier aircraft and would have their fuel and navigation systems checked. Once each drone was connected to their carrier aircraft and their systems checked up they would next check to ensure their camera systems were in place. With all systems good to go it was time to plug in the coordinates for each of them. The first drone would be released at 21.607281, 107.311616 where then it would fly up to its operational height of 90,000 ft and proceed to 22.610161, 108.198598 and take a photo. It would then fly to 25.222275, 110.052862 and take a photo once again before moving on and proceeding to 30.821302, 111.007336 where it would take a photo. It would then fly to 32.037374, 112.109703 before then flying to 32.561555, 114.053313 and then flying to 32.253218, 117.145129. Then it would fly to 31.792808, 118.862985 and take a photo before then flying to 30.705342, 120.680376 and taking a photo. It would then fly to 28.778728, 121.806877 before flying to 26.917896, 121.949434 and then flying to 22.890768, 121.182589 where it would eject its camera and film. After that, the aircraft would fly to 14.626895, 120.768344 for recovery with engine shutoff and then splashdown at 13.587221, 119.980125. If all else failing the aircraft would detonate after 48 hours. The second drone was programmed to be released at 17.358270, 112.311924 and fly up to 90,000 ft where it would proceed to fly to 22.636477, 113.814953 and take a photo before flying to 23.401216, 113.305499 and taking a photo. It would then fly to 24.689515, 113.537394 and then fly to 25.372646, 114.614803 before following the coordinates of 25.407167, 115.510846 to 25.088918, 117.470967 to 24.538484, 118.133344 where it would take a picture. Flying to 22.790945, 121.030587 it would eject the camera and film before then flying to 14.140295, 120.280178 for splashdown and recover engines turning off. It was programmed to self-destruct after 48 hours if not recovered and deactivated just like the previous one. Both would be programmed to take slow deliberate turns when going to new coordinates as would be necessary considering they would be programmed to fly at mach 3. An Embraer EMB 145 P-99B MULTI INTEL would be placed twenty feet away from the two aircraft and be prepped for a different recon mission. It would be doing border recon while the other two did a deep search.

The 921st Fighter Red Star Squadron would be getting involved with their 12 Su-35S 'Super-Flanker' currently present at Cat Bi due to the previous Air Tattoo. Each would be armed with 6 x R-77 medium range air to air missiles and 6 x R-74 short range air to air missiles. Their 1 × internal 30 mm Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30-1 autocannons would be loaded with 150 rounds as per standard. Wheeled from a parked position with 20 feet between each of them and the other aircraft they would be given max fuel for this mission. Finally, a single Beriev A-50 would be fueled and undergo system checks from within its hanger space.

Two pilots wearing high altitude pilot suits for the Lockheed M-21 would board the first of the two aircraft. After that, they would taxi to the runway, all traffic being cleared as they waited. Then they would throttle up and speed down the take-off strip. Engines roaring as they would then lift off in the sky. Gradually they would ascend to their target altitude of 80,000 feet and then once leveled off would approach 21.607281, 107.311616. Once a launch speed of Mach 3 was obtained the D-21 Drone would be launched its engines flaring up as the Lockheed M-21 would decrease the throttle a little. The drone would start moving forward ahead of the aircraft the launch has been successful. With the drone on its way, the M-21 carrier aircraft would begin to slow down and make a slow and gradual turn to avoid entering Chinese airspace. The transit path this drone would take would be OL, OM, PM, PL, and PK. The carrier aircraft, however, would be staying in OL as it would return to the airport.

Meanwhile, as this had been going on two other pilots wearing high altitude pilot suits for the Lockheed M-21 would board the second of the two aircraft. Once locked inside like the previous two they would taxi to the runway after the first had taken off. From there they would throttle up and speed down the takeoff stripe. Lifting off into the sky as they would then gradually ascent to their target altitude of 80,000 feet before circling around. Flying at their cruise speed they would fly to 17.533286, 107.927463 before then flying to 16.599593, 109.913275. Making gradual turns as they began their approach to the launch point. Speeding up to Mach 3 once at 17.358270, 112.311924 they would launch the second drone. Throttling down as the drone would speed ahead of them well on its way. The drone operational the aircraft would begin to slow down as it rocketed ahead of them. Then avoiding Chinese airspace would turn around following the same coordinates back towards their airbase. The path taken so far would be OL, OK. The path taken by the drone would be OK, OL, PL, PK.

Both the coordinates and grids are within my territory and as such a violation of the player protection against military and intelligence operations.

Furthermore I would like to inquire on the second part of his operations, while he is within his own airspace he is also actively surveilling into my territory. Would I be authorized to use ecm to counter his radar efforts without violating the protection?

 

[Hollie]

Hello @Centurius ,

Another Support Ticket was submit by Apingdaldal to confirm whether Chinese Immunity is Revoked, due to Operations in the Spratly Island Regions. Jamie confirmed,

"Any Military Assets sent into a disputed territory, except for passage (From one place to another outside of that Territory) then immunity is removed as Disputed Territory can be seen as provocative"


Kind Regards,
Hollie

 

[Centurius]

Hello @Hollie and @Jamie ,

I must protest this decision in the strongest terms and request an appeal. The rule concerning protection states the following.

Newest Members have 91 days (Approximately 3 months) of immunity against military or intelligence attacks. This may be withdrawn when the country provokes or prompts conflict.
Obvious provocations include Border incursions, Cyber attacks, Terrorism, Espionage, Military aggression and False flags.

The rule specifically states provokes or prompts conflict. The military movement was a regular patrol mission maintained between sealanes where the Celestial Empire owns territory. I did not send ships into the South China Sea, they were based in a base that the People's Republic of China owns actively in real life. This decision opens up the massive loophole where someone can just claim another's territory and use the fact that they have military where as a 'provocation'.

As a concrete example, what is to stop me from claiming the Senkaku Islands (a territory China has a claim to in real-life) and using that claim to void the protection of a future Japan player the moment they station something there? Likewise what is to stop me from using the fact Taiwan is disputed territory? What is to stop a Russia from voiding protection over Ukraine? This is a massive loophole.

My ships have not actively acted against anyone's sovereignty, any conflict was initiated by apingaldal and addressed peacefully by the Celestial Empire. My ships did not sail by any of the islands operated by others and merely maintained strict patrol routes through territories China physically owns in real-life.

Of course then there is also the fact that none of these actions come even close to the mentioned provocations.

 

[Hollie]

Hello @Centurius ,

I would consider sending Deployments into a Disputed Territory without any Communication with the Disputing States, as Provoking Conflict. Please note, I say Obvious Provocations in the Rules with Examples.
Most Immunity Suspensions are handled on a Case by Case basis, which is why we don't have an Exhaustive List. The Staff Team will continue to decide whether an Action is, or isn't Provocative.

Regardless, Jamie has already Ruled on this issue in a Former Support Ticket. Something, I will not reverse to avoid Undermining his Position.


Kind Regards,
Hollie

 

[Centurius]

Hello @Hollie ,

This was a decision I was neither informed or notified of and not given the ability to appeal, which is also why I tagged @Jamie on the decision. It is common procedure to at the very least inform the subject of a ruling and give him a chance to respond. A common practice in any kind of executive decision. As such I must maintain my appeal. It does not matter to me who handles it, so if you do not want to undermine him I do not mind him hsndling it.

 

[Jamie]

Hello @Centurius,

As mentioned by Hollie, each situation is case-by-case. In this circumstance, the issue surrounding the Spratly Island Regions is a well known disputed area. Submitting to a patrol or any military presence in a disputed area could very much be considered as provocative given the fact that the islands are claimed by a number of actual players (As opposed to just NPCs).

No action has been taken against you by another player, nonetheless, I apologise for not informing you sooner; be assured, it was on my to-do list.

Kind Regards,
Jamie

 

[Centurius]

Hello @Jamie ,

Except it has, which this report was for. Vietnam has launched invasive surveillance operations into my territory. I would also like to ask whether the previous ruling predates that surveillance operation linked above as in that case, even if I disagree with the ruling, it should still be voided. I do accept and appreciate your apology

 

[Jamie]

Hi @Centurius,

Yes, the ruling predates the operation; but regardless, the entry into disputed territory would've still led to the same ruling. Therefore we would keep the existing RP as valid, especially given the duration since it was initially posted.

Kind Regards,
Jamie